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  1. Rod
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  4. Tuesday, 19 March 2019
Hello! Early on I'm sure I read that it is possible to add a few items to an existing USB Library without the long-winded loading and copying to User then re-saving and deleting etc:. Afflicted as I am with low vision, sorting through pages and pages has become impossible now, so can I ask the question here? The only way I can see of doing this would be to have the new additions (say I have 20 to add to a USB Library of 535) alone in the User Bank, then the normal 'UTILITY' - Contents - Save - Library File and then type in the exact name of the Library I want that already exists on the USB. If I do that, one of four things may happen when I hit 'Done' ...

1) Montage will create a second Library of the same name containing only my 20 new additions OR

2) Montage will overwrite the existing Library to contain only my 20 new additions OR

3) Montage will ADD my 20 new additions to the existing Library of that name OR

4) Something entirely different! You can see my concern ... so, which of these four things will happen, please?

Thanks!

PS. This is not a complaint - it's just that in my mind I'm sure I read somewhere that Montage has the ability to add a few items to an existing USB Library - but can't find where I read it!
Responses (12)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If you have an existing library on a USB stick, you cannot merge your current user area with that file. If you do use the same name, Montage will ask if you want to overwrite the file on the USB stick or rename the file. In either case the saved content will have the 20 Performances in your hypothetical user bank and not 555 (535+20).

Without the assistance of paid/licensed software, you're going to have to load the USB stick library file (X7L) into a library slot, then import all Performances from that library slot. Your user area will now have 555 Performances. Now save a new Library file which will contain the 555 intended Performances.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Jason, and thank you. I have been doing the Load - Import - Save - Delete routine OK, but in my mind this ability to add keeps niggling away. I didn't dream it (though it is a dream feature) but for the life of me I cannot remember where I read it! Possibly on this Forum but in 2016 when I bought Montage and was busy trying to learn the basics (I still am!). I think Bad Mister has assured me it can't be done - but it won't go away! Maybe some experiments, if only to convince myself and lay the ghost ... incidentally, if Montage recognises that a Library exists, it doesn't seem much of a step to add to it as an option ...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I've requested library and user file merge - to no avail. Something where the current user area or a select library can be merged with an existing user or library file - perhaps with the ability to select which performance(s) to merge. An error presented if the performance count spills over 640. I think perhaps the load operation would prevent those conditions where the save file has more than 1.75GB so that perhaps does not need to be checked - but it could as well, presenting an error for other resource overflows.

It's a pie-in-the-sky wish without much chance of movement this generation.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm still working on this - Jason said that if I try to give a Library a name that already exists on the USB, Montage will tell me and ask if I want to over-write it with the new User Bank. I could use that for my purposes - but it doesn't ask that. If I specify a Library name exactly as already exists on the USB - it goes right ahead and does it. Only it makes a small change to the name, in my case a double dot extension - it changes from .X7L to ..X7L so that I have both on the USB. Should Montage ask if I want to over-write? If it should, why doesn't it? Any ideas please!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
There is no shortcut to this issue. A Library is Read Only Memory and should be thought of as a published document. If you want to make a change to a published document (Library) you will need to make a new edition.

This process is done my moving the data out of Read Only Memory (Library), to Random Access Memory (User Bank). It is here that you can create a new Edition ... once you complete the additions/changes to this data you should create a new Library File with a new Name. You do so by saving the current User Bank to a LIBRARY FILE.
You can then DELETE the original Library from ROM
You can then also “Initialize User Data”.

It is at this point you can install your new Library to one of eight ROM locations.
I highly recommend you create a new name and not write over previous Library Files. Keep them, and keep a copy on your computer in a safety folder. You never know when you will want to go back and reference that original Library File.

Extra Credit:
The advantage of working with the John Melas software is you can do all the management and file creation on the computer. The workflow is that all programs are made in the computer; your end product is a File that you can move to a usb stick and load to your instrument. The Melas Waveform Editor actual loads the Performances, Waveform and Sample Data so that it is able to create the file structure necessary.

If you are looking for an elegant way to manage the otherwise “long-winded” process, the Melas tools are the answer, period.
The fact that you are “burning” data to ROM is significant. It is not a simple process and there will likely be no update to magically make updating data in Flash a simpler operation. It’s ROM, like the Factory Preset Data... in order to rewrite the Factory Preset ROM requires a firmware update that removes and reinstalls an entirely new set... that is all the original stuff and includes the enhancements. It’s literally publishing a New Edition.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I always suggest to place the date in the filename. This way - the date is always advancing assuming your saves are not on the same day. If you have many the same day - consider v1, v2, v3. Montage doesn't have an RTC (realtime clock) so there's not going to be a file timestamp to tell you which one is saved on what day/time. Keeping track at least of some date stamps (by filename) would help keep your save files in order. I'm surprised Montage doesn't ask if the filename you enter matches one on the same storage media you're saving to. Then again, I haven't tried this as I always name my files something different.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello BM and Jason. Thanks for thinking about this. I took Jason's statement that Montage asked about over-write or rename as being fact, but it evidently isn't in this context. So my question is irrelevant. OK, a blind alley! As you say, Jason, it is odd that Montage doesn't ask when it does elsewhere. However, it is what it is, as BM pragmatically observes. I have John Melas' tools, but find them even slower than Montage, so prefer to do everything on Montage. I don't use the computer for anything other than a copy of the USB. Perhaps a brief outline of what I'm doing ... accepting that I cannot add to a Library ...

My USB Libraries are named generically, eg: A. Piano Layers or B. Keyboard Layers and so on (Montage adds .X7L). When in Piano Layer mode, I clear the User Bank, load the Piano Layer Library and Import to the User Bank. I then produce some new Piano Layers, maybe change or delete a few of the old ones. It would be perfect to then re-Save by over-writing the existing Library on the USB (I have no use for the old Library). But I now find I can't. Again the slow boat to China route, saving the new and deleting the old on both the USB and Montage ... ho-hum ... at least it instils logic and patience!

I still think Yamaha have compromised a world-class Synthesiser by adding Music Arranger facilities. They could dump the entire 'Live Set' feature, all the Arpeggios, all the musically arranged presets, all the drum kits and most of the drum samples - make it a lean and cheaper Synth pure and simple with improved Synth work-flow features - but make the formats compatible with the Genos so all sounds produced could be loaded directly into Genos. Ideal world ...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The instrument would be much more difficult for me to use without Live Set - as Live Set is the only reasonable "replacement" for random access of Performances that Motif allowed by pressing a sequence of buttons (USR1, then "B", then "8" ) for example. On the gig, this was easy to manage. Without Live Set, I would have no reasonable easy way to recall my Performances for the show. You may find some aspect of the keyboard useless for your workflow - but the keyboard's audience serves more than your usage. This is why pitting features against one another is generally a bad idea and better to describe how to add functionality rather than remove or trade.

Also, regarding saving libraries of the same name -- I have just tested this and do not get the results you are reporting.

1) [UTILITY], "Contents" -> "Save/Store", touched "Content Type" and changed to "Library", then touched "Save As New File"
2) Entered filename "abc" - which wrote a library "abc.X7L". It took a long time ... This all depends on how many waveforms you have (or do not) in your user area. I don't think I should have many - but have done some imports for experimentation sake -- so there are some "large data" items there.
3) [UTILITY], "Contents" -> "Save/Store", touched "Content Type" and changed to "Library", then touched "Save As New File"
4) Entered filename "abc" - which I had previously indicated would ask for your confirmation to overwrite (since it's the same file we saved before - "abc.X7L" on the disk). Montage displayed a screen:
"abc.X7L" will be overwritten
[Cancel]/No [Save]/Yes


According to what I see here, the system performs as I indicated previously. Montage confirms before overwriting. There's no automatic guessing to add punctuation ("." ) or anything else. If you got a name with an extra period - chances are your hand hit the screen adding the punctuation and you were not aware YOU changed the name -- it was different -- so no confirmation of overwrite (since a different name can't overwrite what's there).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Jason - that's my whole point! Montage is NOT a gigging machine - that's where a Genos excels. Montage is supposed to be a synth, pure and simple, but has been compromised by arranger features - which reduces its capability for both. There are sound producers, and there are music producers. Each requires a different set of facilities. To combine both properly would be massively expensive - so two affordable machines. A studio synth, and a gigging arranger. Compatible!

I do exactly as you describe, but no, I didn't hit anything twice. I don't add the extension at all - Montage does that all by itself. And it added .X7L for the first entry and then ..X7L for the repeat entry. Maybe because you did the same thing twice in a row with nothing in between? I'll give that a try when next on Montage - it's what I expected it to do, very logical and very useful! But it did something different again last night - instead of adding an extra dot, it added '001' to the Library name! ie: A. Piano Layers001.X7L so the mystery deepens! I do notice the extension is in addition to the maximum 20 characters allowed for the name - but I can't put it in when specifying the name if the name itself is 20 characters long. I tried that with B. Keyboard Layers.X7L it would take the 'X' (as the 20th character) but not the '7L' - keeps us all guessing! We can but keep trying ...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I, and many others use Montage as a gigging machine. Some use it only as a production machine (DAW, interface, integrated in studio). I'm not saying it isn't that. It's both. Some use Montage for both simultaneously. Carting Montage off to gigs and then coming back and plugging it into the studio for production work. Some have no music career and use Montage as a practice/enjoyment device with no production or gigging at all. All of these are fine uses for Montage. Do not assume your usage is everyone's. Your usage or my usage is far too narrow to define what Montage is.

An arranger does different stuff than a synth. How you use an arranger - to gig, produce, have fun, etc. is not defined by the product but by the user.

Throw into the mix the international nature of the customers - and many regional nuances are introduced.

As far as the filename business - I just cannot reproduce your results. I explained how you could have arrived where you did. It's not out of the realm of possibility that you didn't physically touch the screen (to press the period) - but the touch hardware recognized a touch. This is called a ghost touch - and happens with touchscreens. They happen more with the protective film on the screen -- I'm sure you've removed that so I am not saying that is contributing. Do retest as I believe the system is designed to avoid overwriting files and prompts you if you try to save an identical file.

When you're saving files - you do not enter the extension. It is entered for you. You enter "B.Keyboard Layers" and Montage will add the ".X7L" on its own.

I haven't seen this "001" business - but I do not do much file saving. I have generated a handful of libraries from the user bank and none have done this yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Jason - I've concluded that I'm the only person on Earth to use Montage purely as a standalone synthesiser and nothing else. So no-one else experiences what I do! Just niggles a bit that I've paid for a load of expensive baggage I'll never use, while not being able to do simple synth stuff I expected. But Life is like that, and I'm learning to get round the roadblocks - still by far the most capable machine I've ever owned!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
No, you're in a pool. Maybe a big one, maybe medium sized. But one of many - so you have to share expectations with the wider community.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
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