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  1. Chris
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Saturday, 25 February 2017
Is there anywhere an absolute beginners guide to using the Montage as I have just "upgraded" from a Motif XF and so far am deeply disappointed. The Montage is supposed to have a much bigger sound library than the Motif so where is it ?. For example in performance mode and selecting category search there are only 16 main headings and 8 sub headings and by clicking on all main headings there are only two that have pop/rock performances and each of these has only one. The category search on my Motif had pages and pages of sounds and performances compared to what I can find on the Montage. All the demos on YouTube show people playing beats/bass/arpeggios with the left hand and lead with the right hand but when I select a performance every key plays the same sound just like a piano. I hope that it is just me having a total lack of understanding of the Montage but at the moment I am thinking that I have made a very expensive mistake :( .
Responses (13)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Once you learn basic navigation, the idea is to assemble your own Performances. Selecting your own items to trigger with left hand chords if that is where you want to go. While all of the XF arpeggio content is in .Montage, none of the XF Four Part Performances are repeated in Montage. Zero!

Please see this thread
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Looking at the data list for Montage vs Motif XF shows 700 more performances for Montage. The categories for performances leaves something to be desired, so I wouldn't necessarily use this. Download the data list and take a look at the performance list. You could do the same with searches on the keyboard but looking at the list may be easier to deal with.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Chris,
What you seem to be looking for (playing styles) is all in the Yamaha Tyros and Yamaha Clavinova,

But then, I too am longing for an option to do solo-gigs with full-band support. Not using the Tyros, but my Montage.
There is a backing module like the Roland BK-7.
But it is already a very old system, and doesn't sound the way I want it. And certainly doesn't support Montage features.
And modern equipment like the Toraiz doesn't support keyboard styles.

It would be great if Yamaha created a stand-alone Montage-Backing module, using its full synthesizer and superknob potential.

Imagine to be a DJ-producer-keyboard player in one. LIVE. On the fly!!!. Real-time adaptable, and not limited to pre-programmed sequences and/or Cubase midi-files. Just change the chord in your left hand, and your band will follow. Yamaha has the technology. It is in the Tyros. If they only would come up with a stand-alone backing module. Even guitar players would then be able to produce some sensible music. :-)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Chris - 'Easy Sounds' (Google them) have a series of articles in the 'Yamaha Music Production Guide' that are down-loadable and may help to get going with Montage, but it is a synthesiser rather than an arranger. Check through the 'Performances' (can mislead you - think of them as 'Voices') - press 'Category Search' then set the 'Main' to 'All' and the 'Bank' to 'Preset' (forget the Categories for the moment) and go through all 1,972 of them. Play with the flashing Super-knob (the flashing can be turned off, thank God!). Something for everyone - and each and every one can be tweaked and twitched almost infinitely. Staggering! Arpeggios and Sequences can be used as backing tracks - find your way around the navigation system. It's quite complex - the sheer volume of traffic on this site testifies to that - but comprehensive. I've had mine for 9 months, and initially thought I'd made a mistake - wrong! I do have issues with it, mainly in sound quality (separate thread) but I wouldn't part with it now!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
For doing splits - there are lots of references. This one is as good as any: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIumqa4bEZA&t=7s
Navigating around / using buttons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOJlgSxNrho

Here's a more complete list that needs some updating since lots of videos have been released since 11/2016:

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/request-training-video-for-montage/oldest#filter-sort

And back to the data list suggestion:

... latest data list is packed in the firmware (*_dl* file dl for data list). Available here: http://download.yamaha.com/search/product/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16277&category_id2=16381&category_id3=&product_id=2166247

There's an older data list as its own file (v1.10 datalist). You should use the one that matches your installed firmware version - which may already be on your hard-drive.

Also, other than performances one way to look at this is by the waveform count. The waveforms are the individual sounds that are the building blocks for Motif XF's voices (and, by extension performances) as well as Montage's PARTs (... and performances). The Motif XF has 3,977 of these waveforms. Montage has 6,347. Many more building blocks for sound.

Back to performances ...

Here's an excerpt from performance 1868 on (not going to cut/paste all 2036) ...

Number Performance Name Main Category Sub Category
1868 Grunged Up Guitar Distortion
1869 Jazz Clean AF1&2 Guitar Electric Clean
1870 Arched Top Guitar Electric Clean
1871 Jazz Blues Guitar Electric Clean
1872 Round Wound Finger Bass Electric
1873 Tube Finger Bass Bass Electric
1874 Slightly Grunged Bass Electric
1875 Prec Pick Bass Electric
1876 Pick Amp Bass Electric
1877 Universal AF1&2 Bass Synth
1878 Analog Bullet Bass Bass Synth
1879 Analog Perc Bass Bass Synth
1880 Analog Step Bass Bass Synth
1881 Short Buzz AF1&2 Bass Rock/Pop
1882 Bass Machine AF1 Bass Electronic
1883 Deep Ramp AF1&2 Bass Electronic
1884 Section Strings 1 Strings Ensemble
1885 Section Strings 2 Strings Ensemble
1886 Section Strings 3 Strings Ensemble
1887 Section Strings 4 Strings Ensemble
1888 Tremolo Section Strings Ensemble
1889 Pizzicato Vel Strings Pizzicato
1890 Orchestra Harp Strings Pizzicato
1891 Harp Ambient Strings Pizzicato
1892 Gleaming Pad AF1&2 Strings Synth
1893 Fat PWM Synth Vel Strings Synth
1894 VintagePolyStrings Strings Synth
1895 SoftTrumpetLegato Brass Solo
1896 Trumpet Vibrato Brass Solo
1897 Trumpet Shake Vel Brass Solo
1898 FrenchHornSection2 Brass Orchestra
1899 Flugelhorn Brass Solo
1900 Jazz Brass Section Brass Ensemble
1901 Ob Syncomp Brass Synth
1902 Tacky Brass AF1&2 Brass Synth
1903 Mellow Soprano Woodwind Saxophone
1904 Alto Accent Legato Woodwind Saxophone
1905 Tenor Max Woodwind Saxophone
1906 SoftTenorSaxLegato Woodwind Saxophone
1907 Piccolo Legato Woodwind Flute
1908 Bizz AF2 Syn Lead Electronic
1909 The Bitch AT AF1&2 Syn Lead Electronic
1910 Mellow Swell AF1&2 Pad/Choir Warm
1911 Frozen Glasspad Pad/Choir Warm
1912 Lunar Eclipse AF Pad/Choir Bright
1913 Melting Steel AF Pad/Choir Choir
1914 Prayer Call Pad/Choir Choir
1915 Bass n' Gate Pad/Choir Rock/Pop
1916 PWM Stabs Syn Comp Analog
1917 Queen of Pop AF1&2 Guitar Electric Clean
1918 Multi Bell Syn Comp Electronic
1919 Acid 'n Space AF Syn Comp Electronic
1920 Middle Ear AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1921 Badger AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1922 Voodoo Wah Syn Comp Electronic
1923 Jumping Wheel AF Syn Comp Electronic
1924 Devils Wah AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1925 Horizons AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1926 Hypnotic AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1927 Airy Buzz AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1928 Trancious Stepz Syn Comp Electronic
1929 Trilogy AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1930 PWM Picks AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1931 VariChord AT AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1932 Voxdance AT AF1&2 Syn Comp Electronic
1933 Spacewave Dancer Sound FX Moving
1934 Berimbau Ookawaton Musical FX Moving
1935 Club Telemetrix Musical FX Moving
1936 Venusian Rhumba Musical FX Moving
1937 Dripping Quarks Musical FX Ambient
1938 Undulator Musical FX Ambient
1939 Expanse Musical FX Ambient
1940 Deep Motion AF1&2 Musical FX Ambient
1941 Metallic Airstabs Musical FX Ambient
1942 Descendant Musical FX Ambient
1943 Angel in Love Musical FX Moving
1944 Berlin Dreamz Musical FX Moving
1945 Complexions AF1&2 Musical FX Moving
1946 Crazy Groove AF1&2 Musical FX Moving
1947 Da Thumperz Musical FX Moving
1948 Meister Chilla Musical FX Moving
1949 X-Generator AF1&2 Musical FX Moving
1950 Glaring Message AF Musical FX Moving
1951 Sitar 2 Ethnic Plucked
1952 India Harmonium Ethnic Jazz/World
1953 Berimbau Ethnic Struck
1954 Banjo 2 Ethnic Plucked
1955 Nu Orc Percussion Drum / Perc Percussion
1956 8Z Cajon Drum / Perc Drums
1957 8Z Djembe Drum / Perc Drums
1958 8Z Static Drum / Perc Drums
1959 8Z RX11 Drum / Perc Drums
1960 8Z Trance Basics 2 Drum / Perc Drums
1961 8Z Tom Heartz Drum / Perc Drums
1962 Mega 1coil Old R&R Guitar Electric Clean
1963 Mega Jazz Guitar Guitar Electric Clean
1964 PowerStandardKit 1 Drum / Perc Drums
1965 PowerStandardKit 2 Drum / Perc Drums
1966 Hyper Standard Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1967 Dry Standard Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1968 Modern Rock Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1969 Rock Stereo Kit 1 Drum / Perc Drums
1970 Rock Stereo Kit 2 Drum / Perc Drums
1971 Nu Hip Hop Kit 1 Drum / Perc Drums
1972 Nu Hip Hop Kit 2 Drum / Perc Drums
1973 Hip Hop Kit 1 Drum / Perc Drums
1974 Hip Hop Kit 2 Drum / Perc Drums
1975 Hip Hop Kit 3 Drum / Perc Drums
1976 Hip Hop Kit 4 Drum / Perc Drums
1977 Hip Stick Kit 1 Drum / Perc Drums
1978 Hip Stick Kit 2 Drum / Perc Drums
1979 R&B Kit 1 Drum / Perc Drums
1980 R&B Kit 2 Drum / Perc Drums
1981 R&B Kit 3 Drum / Perc Drums
1982 Trance Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1983 Psychedelic Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1984 Chill Out Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1985 Brush Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1986 Jazz Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1987 Pop Latin Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
1988 Analog T9 Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1989 Analog T8 Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1990 Tekno Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1991 House Kit 1 Drum / Perc Drums
1992 House Kit 2 Drum / Perc Drums
1993 HouseCompressedKit Drum / Perc Drums
1994 Big Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1995 Break Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1996 Drum'n'Bass Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1997 Acid Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1998 Jungle Kit Drum / Perc Drums
1999 Electric Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2000 Human Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2001 Hard Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2002 Distorted Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2003 Ambient Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2004 Garage Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2005 Synth Pop Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2006 Orchestra Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2007 Drum Machines Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2008 Rock Multiple Kits Drum / Perc Drums
2009 HipHopMultipleKits Drum / Perc Drums
2010 Percussion Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2011 LatinPercussionKit Drum / Perc Percussion
2012 Guitar/Bass FX Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2013 Wacko Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2014 Wood Bits Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2015 Metal Bits Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2016 Hands Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2017 Scratches Drum / Perc Percussion
2018 Acoustic Snares Drum / Perc Drums
2019 Grouped St Snares Drum / Perc Drums
2020 All Kicks Drum / Perc Drums
2021 Dance Kicks Drum / Perc Drums
2022 Arabic Mixed Kit 1 Drum / Perc Drums
2023 Belly Dance Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2024 Dance Snares Drum / Perc Drums
2025 Special SFXs Drum / Perc Percussion
2026 Synthetic Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2027 SFX Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2028 Stereo GM Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2029 Maple Custom Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2030 Oak Custom Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2031 Nu Jazzy Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2032 Illest Hip Hop Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2033 Perc Master Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2034 Nu Orchestra Kit Drum / Perc Drums
2035 Japan Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
2036 Turkish Kit Drum / Perc Percussion
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks all for your detailed replies all of which are very much appreciated.
I already own a Tyros 5 and accept that the Montage doesn't have 'styles' but I was not expecting it to be so different to the Motif especially as it was promoted as being able to do so much straight out of the box. The four part 'performance' mode in the Motif was to me a very nice feature as I am purely a hobbyist and not a live player and these were so easy to select from the menus and edit as required. It looks like I will be spending a lot of evenings getting to grips with the Montage and take heart from Rod who had the same thoughts as me when he purchased his.
However I still don't get that there are only 2 pop/rock voice/performances in ALL of the main headings, on my Motif there were hundreds.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Jan, I agree with you 100% and the annoying thing is that the Montage clearly has the potential to do that but so far is unable to realise it.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Chris. I too was a bit disappointed when I got my Montage that there was no Motif like performances. Never owned a motif but played with one at stores. Enjoyed the performances. However, the Montage offers all the "ingredients" to create your own Motif like performances. Check videos by this Korean Yamaha demonstrator in YouTube. Look for lesson 34 & 35. He teaches how to create these performances and programming different arpeggios to scenes. I don't understand a single word of Korean but by watching what he is doing, you can learn how to create your own performances. It takes a bit of time but it's lots of fun once you get the hang of it. Enjoy!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
This is an interesting topic as it shows just how different people are with what they are wanting in a performance synth.

I personally dont like how the motif is full of performances with beats etc that I'll never ever use live. I prefer a large number of great quality sounds using articulations etc that I can build lives sets from. Splits and Layers are nice along with control that the super knob provides. But then everyone uses the Montage for different things, some people just like to Jam at home or feel inspired by a pre-made sequence. I play live in covers bands so think the Montage will suit me well as long as I can get my head round its lacking midi master functions.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
It's a real bummer that the Montage almost doesn't boast any of the "accompaniment/solo" performances from the XF/MOXF.
It does have all the arps, but nothing is interconnected. It makes no sense. after all, it's all there. right now, you'll be told to create your own. but its a tedious process, to go over hundreds of arps, selecting the best that fit the performance, when all the work was already done previously on the XF.

Yamaha (or through one of its affiliate) will make a conversion of the XF/MOXF performances for the Montage sometime soon (at cost or no cost I'm not sure, but I'd gladly pay for this). this is a part of their to-do list.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
It seems then that I am not the only one who is missing the "accompaniment/solo" performances that were so easy to call up on the Motif. Don't get me wrong, in no way am I knocking the Montage and was fully aware that it wasn't simply an upgrade of the XF. Saying that however, purely as a home hobby player I really didn't expect to have to program everything from scratch and now miss being able to switch it on press a couple of buttons and be playing a preset performance. Maybe as Eyal has said, someone will make a conversion of the XF performances for the Montage which will suit the type of owner as myself.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I think Yamaha's answer might be that theres already a perfect board for home hobbyists - Tyros. With all its styles etc that would be a great fit for people wanting to jam alone at home.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I have one of those as well :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 13
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